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TexasAggies57
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posted 3:45p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



Recently, we had heard the 60-70 million Fox was offering was upped to 90million. The men donned sack cloth, and rubbed ash on themselves. There was great mourning, beating of chests, and gnashing of teeth over the loss of what seemed like a likely SEC move.

However, upon further inspection, the 90 isn't exactly a cut and dry 90 million dollar offer. First, lets keep in mind that you better believe Beebe and the Big 12 are leaking this to keep the pressure on A&M and any other members thinking of leaving. The SPD article proclaimed, offer upped to 90 million. Courtesy of Spider Rico, we got the other portion of the article. The thread it is in was removed/deleted so I will paraphrase.

Fox will retain cable exclusivity.
Fox would double their games/year from 20 to 40.
The pecking order would change from
ABC -> ESPN -> FSN
to
ABC -> FSN -> ESPN

Now Rico was saying that this appeared to be a great offer since it wont modify existing contracts and that ESPN already pays fox for the games they air.

Respectfully, I disagree with his assessment. Now, it is my understanding that indeed, if ESPN picks up a big 12 game (not ABC, ESPN), the do pay FSN. But what if they lost those 20 games? Now, we dont have access to the specifics but I would have to assume that since this FSN renegotiation has those new perks in there, they wouldnt affect the ESPN/ABC contracts. Thus, it must be for every game ESPN shows, they will pay FSN. But if FSN sucks up a good lot of those games, they are cutting out ABC/ESPN of this deal, and thus, that aspect of the contract, worth $60million, greatly diminishes. I would say that losing all those games they would potentially show would make up the ground we saw in the 60-70 jump to 90.

If Im understanding this right, FSN just made a move, without ruining existing agreements that will basically tell ESPN to pay up to keep a foot in the door of what would largely become a FSN conference (and ignored by ESPN except tu). Not only that, they would likely meet that 20 million mark still, as I said with the other post I wrote about the subject. FSN is cutting ESPN out. ABC still has the first pick of the big games like tu-ou etc, but FSN would basically take everything else.

-Why this sucks dick-

FSN's coverage and their sports channel as a whole is like a damn high school club effort.

The deeper FSN ties and knowing that ESPN is unlikely to steal the Big 12 (especially with FSN talking long term deal) plus all those games that would have been on ESPN now going on FSN means much less press. We already lost a big national name in nebraska, this will just hurt us more. Look at the ESPN coverage of the Cotton Bowl if you dont believe me.

The FSN offer isnt much more in effect than the original 60-70 mil overpaying.

Do you really need to be reminded of the tier-3 deals OU and tu will sign? tu and ou are very likely to make as much if not more than us in this conference and then will also have their own networks to boot. We are sitting here patting ourselves on the back for getting a big heaping number while no one seems to get that we will be making much less than both OU and tu. We are cheering for getting third place in about the 4th most powerful conference. Way to settle.

Money is not everything. What we gain from a move to the SEC is worth losing a few million, and Id be willing to be we dont even do that if they renegotiate their TV as they are likely to do as per Slive's comments. There are some idiots and apologists who keep bring up the journeyman money we, and other schools like Kansas and Mizzou, are getting and saying this is the best deal. **** that. Image, perception, home schedule, guaranteed paychecks versus appearance based systems (hello 5 games on tv last year). There are so many benefits to the SEC. Ive been to the SEC games, seen the atmosphere. It is where A&M needs to go to actively lock in their future, and not sit on their hands and settle for sitting at the kids table like we look like we will.

[This message has been edited by TexasAggies57 (edited 3/21/2011 3:48p).]


dcaggie04
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posted 3:55p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



FYI ABC = ESPN. So ESPN still has 1st tier rights and their first pick of games to show on ABC prior to FSN getting to pick.

Sam84
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posted 4:14p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



We will see if its finalized before the exclusive bargaining window closes. If not we could see ESPN counter bid.

John David Stutts
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posted 4:25p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



If this means more of our games end up on FSN than ESPN then this is a disaster.

TexasAggies57
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posted 5:11p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



Dcaggie, ESPN is under the same umbrella but it's obviously not the same. Eg: Our FSN games are not on Fox.

UtayAg
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posted 5:48p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



Don't worry fellers. As I suspected TexasAggies57 doesn't have the first clue what he is talking about.

Spider Rico
user level: Veteran
posted 5:50p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



I don't know that the thread was deleted. Just this new format only goes two pages back right now.

From the article, and what I had long believed to be the case, I thought ESPN got to choose their cable ESPN/ESPN2 game before Fox. The Big 12 site TV faq says I was wrong-that ESPN is currently paying Fox for "4-6 games" a year.

quote:
ABC has the right to televise up to 19 home games involving Big 12 teams, including the Dr Pepper Big 12 Football Championship. FSN has the rights televise 24 games. FSN has traditionally sub-licensed between four and six of the 24 games to another national cable carrier (TBS from 2003-2006 and ESPN from 2007-2011). Jointly, the Big 12 and FSN agreed to sublicense an additional six games to VERSUS from 2007 through 2009. In 2010, FSN will televise those six games itself.


I initially thought like you wrote, that the order of selection would change in to favor Fox as part of the $90 million and that would obviously require rework of the ABC/ESPN contract, but no longer believe that to be the case. Here is the section from the short article that I mentioned:
quote:
Fox also is keeping all digital and mobile rights to those games, and it would retain cable exclusivity for all Big 12 contests. That means that ESPN will be able to show Big 12 games only if it buys them in syndication from Fox.

I thought the 2nd sentence indicated a new condition, but again after checking Big 12 site this has been the case for several years.
quote:
Thus, it must be for every game ESPN shows, they will pay FSN. But if FSN sucks up a good lot of those games, they are cutting out ABC/ESPN of this deal, and thus, that aspect of the contract, worth $60million, greatly diminishes.

I don't know that it hurts ESPN much at all. There are fewer games to choose from and I can't see Fox logically expecting that because they already paid the Big 12 an outrageous amount for those games, that ESPN must now pay Fox a similar fee. ESPN has a lot of rights and a lot of games to select from outside the Big 12 and can just continue declining Big 12 games if the fee is too high

Like you I'm still skeptical about a lot of this, but it's sounding better all the time from a money stand point.

I brought up last month that the 6 game per team appearance limit on ABC (in the ABC contract) was going to have to be increased now just due to the reduction in teams. And that this would be a major problem for Fox who should want a lot of chances to show Texas and OU games. But I have not seen it brought up in any article related to the negotiation. So I'm guessing it is going to stay at 6 until 2015, meaning I think they can count on at least 2 appearances by Texas and OU on Fox(or ESPN after a hefty payment to Fox).

I guess we won't know for sure for another couple of weeks what the terms are, but if Fox is willing to pay $90 million/year without any immediate alteration to the ABC contract, and basically ensure that every conference game against a D1 opponent is televised, Beebe may actually be earning his money.


[This message has been edited by Spider Rico (edited 3/21/2011 5:53p).]


viva torrente
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posted 6:23p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



quote:

Don't worry fellers. As I suspected TexasAggies57 doesn't have the first clue what he is talking about.


I doubt anyone on texags actually has a clue in regards to what will happen.

Most of what happened last summer came out of nowhere (the pac16, NU to the b10 instead of mizzou, A&M to the SEC).

I would love to go the SEC and I will believe we get our beebe bucks once the money is the bank. We will have to see. I do believe that if, and it is a big if, we were to move, it would happen pretty suddenly and likely this summer.

If not then were are probably going to ride with whatever we get from the networks for however long the contracts are.


oldjohnny
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posted 6:24p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



ESPN=ABC. Disney gets first picks. It makes no difference if they want to show the game on ESPN2 or ABC. A good example of this was last season's A&M v Nebraska game and Baylor v Oklahoma game. ESPN had both picks locked up, but couldn't decide which game to show on ESPN2 and which one to show on ABC.

dcaggie04
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posted 6:38p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



quote:
ESPN is under the same umbrella but it's obviously not the same. Eg: Our FSN games are not on Fox.


ESPN=ABC, period. Look at all the games on ABC and it will say "ESPN on ABC". If ESPN picks up a game, they have 1 of 4 channels to put it on, ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU and ABC.


TexasAggies57
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posted 6:50p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



Rico, something has to give. Fox Sports cant honestly start televising Baylor-Iowa State and hope to make money or even lose just a little bit of it.

If Im reading right, FSN will stop sublicensing those games though. The ones to versus and ESPN. Still cutting ESPN and others out of the deal.

And utay, stop talking like an inbred and get back in your hole.

Also, dcaggie, there is a large difference between ESPN and ABC. Payout, exposure, etc. ABC is a national channel. ESPN is cable.

[This message has been edited by TexasAggies57 (edited 3/21/2011 6:51p).]

[This message has been edited by TexasAggies57 (edited 3/21/2011 6:52p).]


Specialized
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posted 8:19p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



If I'm reading this correctly, then in this instance ESPN and ABC are two very different things. It looks like in the past (and continuing into the future)ESPN/ABC has to buy a game from FSN if it wants to show the game on a cable platform. It says that fox will continue to be the exclusive cable platform for Big XII games. That means that ESPN/ABC can only show the games that it picks up in the first tier on ABC and cannot move them to ESPN without buying them from fox.

UtayAg
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posted 8:24p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



But TexasAggies57, I know more than you about this subject. So who is the inbredand hole liver?

UtayAg
user level: All-StarAggie12th Man DonorVarsity Level Supporter
posted 8:25p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



You have no clue how the money works. None whatsoever. Blowhard.

oldjohnny
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posted 9:05p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



While there is a difference in exposure from ABC, ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPNU, Disney can do whatever they want with their pick. For all Disney cares, they can pick OU vs Texas and decide to air it on ESPNDeportes (pay will be the same as if it were to air on ABC). What you don't seem to understand is that Disney gets first picks, then goes FSN, and then it's up to the school to exercise PPV or FCS.

[This message has been edited by oldjohnny (edited 3/21/2011 9:06p).]


TexasAggies57
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posted 10:01p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



I was going off what Rico had said initially. Regardless, I stand by my statement of the 90 not being as good as what we think.

In the end, stop being a ****.


viva torrente
user level: TexAgs Legend
posted 10:04p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



Why doe one poster know more about this subject than another?

Please give credentials, if you are going to pull that card.


UtayAg
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posted 10:10p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



The 90 is solid. I'm not at all sure what your original analysis was that said otherwise and I'm totally flomuxxed as to what Rico has to do with anything. You started the thread. Not Rico. And frankly, my saying that you have no idea what you are talking about I don't believe earns you the right to call me names that have to be censored. The fact is you don't have the first clue what you are talking about and if you dislike me saying that then just let me know.

UtayAg
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posted 10:13p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



viva, would send you a PM but you are not a subscriber. Sorry.

austinAGtx
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posted 10:16p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



quote:
ABC still has the first pick of the big games like tu-ou etc, but FSN would basically take everything else
WTF else is there? if you havent noticed, theres a lack of quality games throughout the entire conference schedule- maybe 1 good one every 2 weeks.


why would anyone fight/pay for the broadcasting rights to iowa st vs kansas? sounds like espn is scooping the cream off the top and letting FSN overpay for unwatchable games


UtayAg
user level: All-StarAggie12th Man DonorVarsity Level Supporter
posted 10:22p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



So what? Why would you care if they do or don't? Why would ESiPN overpay for the sip network

TexasAggies57
user level: All-Star
posted 11:10p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



quote:
The 90 is solid. I'm not at all sure what your original analysis was that said otherwise and I'm totally flomuxxed as to what Rico has to do with anything. You started the thread. Not Rico. And frankly, my saying that you have no idea what you are talking about I don't believe earns you the right to call me names that have to be censored. The fact is you don't have the first clue what you are talking about and if you dislike me saying that then just let me know.


The 90 is solid? Says who? Ubben lol? Ask far as I can tell, this is just what Beebe is leaking out. I dont like you because youre being a whiny little *****. If you disagree, say so and be polite. All you have been is a whiny pain in the ass. If you had said, I think you are wrong and heres why instead of posting a vague hillbilly condecending anecdote, you wouldnt have been called a ****. You are more than welcome to email me what you think you know and tell me just how out of the loop I am.

quote:
WTF else is there? if you havent noticed, theres a lack of quality games throughout the entire conference schedule- maybe 1 good one every 2 weeks.


why would anyone fight/pay for the broadcasting rights to iowa st vs kansas? sounds like espn is scooping the cream off the top and letting FSN overpay for unwatchable games


I have noticed. And FSN is drastically overpaying. Conferences dont lose two members after being an afterthought to begin with and increase their market value 350% 4 years later.

quote:
So what? Why would you care if they do or don't? Why would ESiPN overpay for the sip network


These arent serious questions right? I care because it directly impacts the future of Texas A&M. Do we settle for third place in a ****ty conference or go find our own fortune in the best conference in football. And ESPN did it for a variety of reasons.


viva torrente
user level: TexAgs Legend
posted 11:20p, 03/21/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



quote:
viva, would send you a PM but you are not a subscriber. Sorry.


Just tell us why you have expertise. You do not have to give a bio.

I just think if you keep telling a poster they know nothing, you need to back it up. Otherwise it is just typical internet bull**** bluster.

Aggies57 could be pulling stuff out of his ass, but so could you.


Joe_the_Plumber
user level: All-Star
posted 4:28a, 03/22/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



So the jist of your post is that we should call it the Texas and the Table Scraps Conference?

jdavis97
user level: All-StarAggie
posted 8:24a, 03/22/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



Blah blah blah blah freakin, Blah! All of our discussions did diddly squat on our move to the SEC so reading this drivel is about as effective as paying attention to the recruiting board.

Recruiting board:

We got him.....no we lost him.....we got him back.....no we lost him......his dad said...

TV Deals:

If I understand it correctly (you don't).....this is a great deal, we'll never leave......this deal is rotten, we're gone.....

STFU, already.


Sam84
user level: Veteran
posted 9:05a, 03/22/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



57-
You said:
quote:
And FSN is drastically overpaying. Conferences dont lose two members after being an afterthought to begin with and increase their market value 350% 4 years later.


3 key points in reply:
1- Each league's deal was up for a big boost and simply looking at the over 200% increase for the ACC is evidence of that. The 12-2 is more valuable than the ACC so nothing less than a huge increase is expected for the BCS leagues.

2- Frankly the last Fox deal (pre-Beebe by the way) sucked since it was the last major deal before the B10 Network hit it big and changed things. After that the networks payed up big time as a reaction and to keep other networks from forming as threats and leverage in negotiations. If you compare our average tv payout to what the SEC paid out before this contract when both were concurrent:
SEC- 6.4 million
(FB tv + BB tv + Champ game all divided 12 ways)
http://savannahnow.com/marc-weiszer/2008-05-30/sec-prime-position-tv-negotiations

B12- 6.625 million avg as we have 79.5 million 12 ways. Ours was done later and is slightly larger for that reason but its pretty much the same deal.

Now comparing current contracts:
Tier 1: SEC CBS fb only vs B12 ESPN/ABC FB & Hoops
SEC-4.5 m per schools from CBS
B12- 5 million per 12 schools (now 6 for 10)

If we estimate the FB value in the B12 deal by taking 80% of it to get an apples to apples comparison we get:
SEC- 4.5m
B12- 4m per 12 (4.8 per 10)

Tier 1 rights are pretty much the same here.
Now for tier 2.
SEC ESPN- Pays 12.5 per school for FB & hoops.
B12- Fox pays 1.62 per school. Even if you add the BB value from T1 (that I took out for even comparison) you get 3.1 million.

Thats a severe undervaluing of our tier 2 rights relative to past history. If you take this into account the large % increase isn't crazy. Especially when you see the ACC getting around 200-250% increases. The issue isn't the league's product or Beebe, its the fact Weiberg saddled us with crappy fox payouts from 2004-2011


3- "But isn't the Big 12 less valuable without NU and CU?"
As far as that I point you in the direction of this article from last June and I quote the most relevant part.

quote:
Texas has expressed interested in starting a network, which consultants have said could eventually bring the school $3-5 million per year, according to the report. Add that to the roughly $17 million per year (makes sense that with unequal sharing 15m avg +2 is easily doable) Beebe is claiming Big 12 schools could make after a new TV deal, and the Longhorns could meet or exceed the money they'd make in the Pac-10.

Under Beebe's plan, the Big 12 would simply carry on without Colorado and Nebraska, according to the report. Each of the ten teams would play each other once during the football regular season, and the schools would decide whether they want to keep the conference championship game.

Despite losing two teams, the Big 12 retains much of its revenue-generating capacity, according to the report, because Colorado was an underperformer. The league lost only 8.6 percent of its value with Nebraska's departure.



Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2010-06-13/texas-interested-beebes-plan-for-big-12#ixzz1HKqdjXFo


[This message has been edited by Sam84 (edited 3/22/2011 9:08a).]


Univex
user level: All-StarAggie
posted 11:19a, 03/22/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



quote:
Most of what happened last summer came out of nowhere (the pac16, NU to the b10 instead of mizzou, A&M to the SEC).


To our administration, maybe, but there was a lot of chatter about it as soon as the B1G announced they were going to study expansion. I grant you the SEC angle blew up rather late in the game but the rest was out there for awhile.


WestAustinAg
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posted 1:23p, 03/22/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



Maybe the long term $90 mil per year deal is, just like someone mentioned before, really just a extremely long-term, back-end loaded contract. First 4 years are something like $60 mil per year and then the contract takes out ESPN/ABC and the Big Xii gets more than $90 mil per year, so that the average is $90 mil.

That is clearly not a good deal at all. We would lose face-time on the only network that matters. We would be locked into Fox at a time when real conferences will be doubling their TV contract dollars per year. We, the conference, become irrelevant overnight.


heddy Lamarr
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posted 2:18p, 03/22/11this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



I though size didn't matter..

damn


 
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